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Mortgage Insider ~ Just another Freedomblogging.com weblog

O.C. mortgage rates return to historic low, 4.875%

December 10th, 2008, 4:27 pm · 24 Comments · posted by Mathew Padilla

(Update: private mortgage insurance reference added.)

Rates on some home loans in Orange County fell today to the lowest since 2003, some mortgage brokers said. And rates in 2003 were the lowest in more than 30 years.

But at least one broker questioned whether the low rates will last.

down-arrow.jpgBorrowers with good credit and a down payment of 20% to 25% of a home’s value can get a 30-year fixed rate loan for 4.875% with a one-point fee, said Jeff Lazerson, president of Mortgage Grader in Laguna Niguel. That’s down from 5% on Wednesday and the first time the rate is below 5% since 2003, he said.

He said a homebuyer might be able to get the best rate with 5% to 10% down, but would have to pay for mortgage insurance.

It’s not clear why rates dropped today, Lazerson said. In any case, the yield on a 10-year Treasury, an indicator of mortgage rates, has been under 3% all month.

Not all banks are offering 4.875% on certain mortgages, Lazerson said. Some lenders are still around 5% or higher. But he said generally consumers can get the best rate offered by a bank for loans up to the 2009 conforming limit for Orange County of $625,500.

Previously lenders offered the best rates on loans up to the old conforming limit of $417,000 and charged a little more for loans up to the temporary 2008 loan limit of $729,750. Loans above $729,750, known as jumbos, had rates all over the map from 7% to 10%. Lazerson said as of last week many lenders stopped offering lower rates on loans up to $729,750 even though the limit expires Dec. 31.

Loan limits refer to the maximum size loan that can be sold to government-sponsored buyers Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Rates are lowest on loans they purchase.

Now rates vary widely on loans above $625,500, Lazerson said.

Lazerson said rates around 5% and lower have spurred many calls from folks seeking to refinance, but some 70% of callers don’t qualify. That’s because they owe the same or more than their home is worth, or they don’t earn enough money, or their credit score is too low, he said.

And Lazerson slammed the plan reportedly being considered by Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson to set purchase loan rates at 4.5% by buying mortgage-backed securities. Some folks are sitting on the fence, as they wait to see if the plan is enacted. If the plan does not happen, then borrowers could miss out on a chance to get a rate under 5%, he said.

Lazerson said Paulson doesn’t think things through. “He doesn’t realize the impact of the things he is doing,” Lazerson said.

Perhaps, but it is not clear who leaked the story on Paulson’s 4.5% plan. Maybe somebody in the industry found out and leaked it.

Jeff Altman of WestCal Mortgage Corp. in Orange also said some banks offered loans at 4.875% today. But he said that low rate may not last.

Altman said the yield on U.S. Treasury bonds rose a bit late today, possibly as investors began to worry about massive government borrowing to fund bailouts, a possible stimulus next year and the ongoing federal deficit.

All that could translate into higher consumer rates.

Consumers are confused and it’s hard for brokers to explain or predict anything these days, Altman said.

“It’s hard to answer anybody because we are in uncharted waters,” Altman said.

And in other news…

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24 Comments

24 Comments

  • yeee-haaaw! Lower my payments, and take out $60,000! Lets see, I always wanted a new boat!

  • annoyaliberal says:

    If no one is lending money, what does it matter what the rate is?

  • own_home says:

    this is very good for potential buyers

  • oonoo foonoo looloo says:

    ironically, the yield on the 10 yr. long bond in june of ‘03 was at a 30 yr. record low of 3.11%. this translated to a 45 yr., not 30 yr., record low in rates. imagine if the same market dynamic was occurring right now. that would translate to 30 yr. fixed rates in the low to mid 4% range!!
    then again, i doubt that even as many as 30% of today’s borrowers would qualify. i’d cut that # in half. ergo, i’m tickled friggin pink that after 21 yrs. in the biz.. i’ve so very happily gotten out.

  • tmare says:

    How many refi candidates have the 20% equity it’s going to take to do it? And how many of those have a current rate that will make it profitable? My guess is that this won’t help the situation much.

  • Jimmy says:

    that’s nice…. now does anyone still have a job to qualify?

  • Joe says:

    How many first time buyers are going to qualify with 25% down? If they are buying a $400,000 house, they have to have $100,000 down. The rate could be zero percent - very few people are going to qualify for this. The industry needs to find some reasonable middle ground between their past practice of giving 100% mortgages to anyone with a pulse and the current rules if there is going to be a turnaround in the real estate market.

  • unless they bring back interest only, negative amortization, no money down, and liar loans, the housing market will continue going down.

    these rates are for regular 30 or 15 year fixed loans which means borrowers have to actually pay back principal. what a concept!!!

    the housing boom of the last few years was based on speculation by people just borrowing money and not paying the principal on their loans. Things are different now.

    Did I mention you need a good FICO score to qualify for these rates?

  • Brain says:

    # own_home Says:
    December 10th, 2008 at 6:28 pm

    “this is very good for potential buyers”

    Nope. WRONG. Housing affordability is all about monthly payments. People can only afford to buy a home if they can afford the monthly payments. When the interest rate falls, monthly payments fall. Good news? If you’re small minded and only think in the short term, then yeah.

    Read and understand this:
    http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/blog/comments/4.5-mortgage-interest-rates/

    Response?

  • Louis says:

    confusion?….10 yr an indicator of mortgage rates is simply not true. Rates are based on MBS i.e. there have been days yields on 10yr improved greatly, yet worsend on MBS.

  • Louis says:

    …..by the way, what ever happend with Pacific Lou’s prediction of 9% rates????

  • OCAppraiser says:

    Ok guys. Now, we have been talking about this housing rise and fall for years now, on this board.
    I’ve personally watched as prices when up 15-25% every year for several years.
    Essentially grossing households $100k per year in OC just for having a mortgage. Many people got rich. Many people went broke. And so on, and so forth. We all know the stories by know.

    Personally, my wife and I have been renting since we got married in late 2002. We got married, had a little debt, and not much income.
    We were not about to sign a mortgage with zero down, sorry.
    I saw how many were buying house and how the frenzy was building.

    I knew what kind of house I wanted and where I wanted to buy. At that time we could not afford it, so we stayed on the fence and have been saving ever since.

    Now we have no debt, about 80k cash, with 800+ ficos. Our current income with qualify us for a 400-450k loan if we get a 4.5% 30yr fixed.

    I have to say folks. In this senario, with 4.5% 30 yr fixed, my wife and I would be ALL OVER it.

    Its never been about equity or prices going up or down. For my family, its ALWAYS been about WHERE we wanted to live, and then affordability. With a 4.5% 30 yr fixed rate, we will finally have both.

    In the end, regardless of what prices do, my wife and I will enjoy living in the city of OUR choice, at a price point and interest rate that is affordable for US. Try and pay the house off in 20-25yrs and then live payment free, for the most part.

  • Louis says:

    OC appraiser……with rates at 4.875%, conv conforming, and with it being a “buyers market”…….you should be able to “seller” to pay closing costs etc. at approx 1.250% discount point (above 1% origination) your rate would be approx 4.375%……..now, this may not be bottom, but are you willing to let that opportunity get a way??

  • john says:

    housing market in Orange County is bad now but believe me even if you buy “high” and get a bad loan BUT can afford to hold on for 20 years it beats stocks and other investments that you have no control of (Wall Street N.Y) we do not know what happens there , I have seen my share of the world OC is in every ones dreams

  • OCAppraiser says:

    Now, I’m not silly enough to think that RE beats stocks as an investment over time, because, it just aint true.

    I am NOT looking at my family purchase as an investment, other than to say in the end (30 years), I wont have to pay anyone for a roof over my head, other than taxes, insurance and maintenance fees.

    Affordability has always been the key for me and my family, as it should have been for everyone else. But it wasnt, and here we are.

    For what we plan on offering for a house (5-15%) below list, depends on the data, I am not asking the seller to pay for anything.

    We have money. We just want to pay the least amount possible for a house, and have the lowest rate possible on 30 yr fixed.

    By “possible”, I mean, market supported at the time we decide to make our move.

    If banks want to give massive amounts of money at a super low rate to my family because we have good fico scores, where do I sign?
    My family takes on the risk of being able to pay the mortgage every month for 20-30 years. With the goal being to actually pay off the house. What a concept!!

    I will do the math and compare products and locations.
    If the stars allign and we get all 3, then YES, I feel great buying.

    Readers, please keep this in mind. My family is approaching this as a purchase of a house that will never be sold, barring major unforseen circumstances. The math makes our monthly around $2700 per month with PITI, no HOA dues. Thats pretty good for an SFR in a beach town that aint Long Beach, Oceanside, or Ventura.
    Includes actual yard 6-7K sf and at least 3 bedrooms, in S. OC.

    Just a basic house, for a basic family, in a basic coastal town.
    Our dream since my wife and I got married.

  • Brain says:

    OCAppraiser

    I like your conservative approach. Have you considered waiting a couple of years for the market to continue to correct even if interest rates go up a bit? I’m in a similar boat as you, and I’ll be waiting for a couple of years.

    Here’s why:
    (1) I can continue to save even more money for a larger down payment. Renting is cheaper so I can stash away lots of extra money each month.
    (2) If interest rates rise, this will further push prices of homes down. Yes interest rates might be higher, but I can (a) purchased the home for much less (after all, affordability is all about the monthly payment…higher rates means lower home price) (b) use a greater down payment built up through saving by renting (c) pay less tax. Tax write-offs are greater when interest rates are higher.

    Remember, you are making 360 mortgage payments over the life of the loan. If you could save yourself $hundreds off EACH PAYMENT just by waiting a couple of years, wouldn’t that be a powerful motivation?

  • OCAppraiser says:

    Yea, I see what you are saying. However, its a family decision,
    so I must consider what my wife wants also. We have a 2 year old.
    Right now I look at what it cost to rent “my product”. Its so close to what a mortgage would be, that I think waiting for lower prices is getting a bit greedy. We’ve waited since 2002. I promised my family that we would not have to move to Riverside if we just waited.

    And hear we are today. On the verge of a manipulated 4.5% 30 yr fixed rate, and prices continuing to drop. I’ve seen and had enough.
    Give me that 4.5% rate and we are buyers in Dana Point or Laguna Niguel.

    Hey, you never know. If we can continue to save while in the new house and prices do continue to fall, maybe we can by a small condo rental for under 100k that is cash flow even.

    Dare to dream?

  • Larry P. says:

    “It’s not clear why rates dropped today, Lazerson said. In any case, the yield on a 10-year Treasury, an indicator of mortgage rates, has been under 3% all month.”

    Yes, it is clear why rates dropped Wed…and over the previous two weeks…and as always, it has nothing to do with the 10-year Treasury which has barely budged since Dec. 1st and today, Dec. 12, has given up ALL of it’s gains since 12/1….Mathew, you should ask the “Experts” you quote why it is that the 10-year has sold off today yet long term mortgage rates are unchanged? The puzzled looks on their faces and attempts at a stammered explanation would be priceless!

  • Liar Loan says:

    Treasurie yields are being pushed down by risk averse money market funds, to the point that T-Bills were selling with a negative yield earlier this week. Funds are required to invest in “safe” debt, and after Lehman imploded, corporate bonds aren’t safe enough for them.

    The old paradigm of Fannie/Freddie mortgage debt being seen as a safe alternative to Treasuries no longer applies, and may never come back. This is why that rough indicator of 10-Year Treasuries to mortgage rates has been completely decoupled and shouldn’t be used as a gauge.

    Mortgage rates dropped recently because of direct manipulation by the Fed planning to buy Fannie/Freddie debt. Free market investor demand has nothing to do with it. (The unintended consequences of this action will be interesting to watch. It will probably hurt more than it helps in the long run.)

    Of course, these salesmen are “old dogs” that don’t want to unlearn what they’ve been taught, so we’ll continue hearing about 10 Year Treasuries I assume.

  • Louis says:

    OC, not sure on your math or estimates as: 400,000 x 80% LTV = Loan Amt $320,000 x 4.5% = PI 1,621.39, taxes based on .0125 of $400,000 = 416.67 per month, and if your HO Ins was $1,500 per year monthly would be $125, for a total PITI of $2,163.06….not $2,700, unless your allowing $536.94 monthly or $6,443.28 yearly for home maintance……bare in mind that if your rate was 4.375% the .125% savings would only lower your PI to $1,597.71

    ……regarding continue to save. Great idea, especially if rates improve and or home prices continue to drop, however qualified buyers with “savings” are in short supply right now…..dont wait so long that others are able to save and catch up, thereby increasing the inventory of buyers out there.

  • OCAppraiser says:

    Lou, I calculate:

    House price: 475k
    Down Pmt 10%: 48K

    Loan amt: 427k at 4.5% 30 yr= 2163 per month.
    Taxes at .0125 = 494.00 per month, plus insurance= 600.00

    Grand Monthly total= 2763.00 month for everything.

    These houses currently rent for between 2400-2900 per month.

    The premium to own is VERY limited in this situation, versus renting.

  • Louis says:

    OC, I have same figures…previously you mentioned 400-450K and had $80K for dp. So I figured on 400,000 with 20% dp in order to avoid PMI…..so, at 90% LTV figure on approx .42% or $1,793.40 annual or $149.45 monthly for PMI, unless you can find a lender that will go 80/10/10 or a another option is to wait it out to where you can buy that 475K home after it drops $75K in value or another 15.79% from current levels.

  • mav says:

    LiarLoan,

    The unintended consquences are the same for every bailout:

    The destruction of investor confidence in free market capitalism.

    Without investor confidence there is no recovery. The debtor / creditor relationship has been decimated in this downturn. This is scary in an economy that has relied heavily on debt for growth. Our society was largely based on credit scores, that model has failed us.

    You really should read this article if you haven’t already. Very interesting:

    http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2008/12/humpty-dumpty-on-inflation.html

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