June 24 average daily rates in Orange County for 30-year fixed loans with one-point fee: Conforming up to 6.078%, Jumbo up to 7.446% and Conforming-Jumbo up to 7.208% (Note: conforming-jumbo rates are for loans from $417,000 to $729,750, while conforming is up to $417,000 -- both types are sold to GSEs. Jumbos here are $730,000 or higher and not sold to GSEs.)
Source: Newspaper Chart Services 
UPDATE: No mortgage workers need apply
March 7th, 2008, 2:34 pm · 86 Comments · posted by Andrew Galvin
Update on March 10: the words “NO MORTGAGE CANDIDATES” have been taken down from AppleOne’s job posting (see link below).
Angela Camacho of AppleOne told me it never should have happened: she made a mistake when she cut and pasted the client’s wording into the online posting. “I do wholeheartedly apologize for that,” she said.
I’ll write more about this soon. In the meantime, my original blog post follows:
I’ve been hearing rumors about this kind of thing, but now somebody has finally shown me the evidence:
Some companies are specifically stating that they don’t want any job applications from former mortgage workers.
For example, take this online posting by AppleOne, a staffing company, on Gadball.com, a job-search site:
I am looking for candidates for the following PERMANENT job orders. This company is the number one sales and training company within their industry. It’s located in San Juan Capistrano. They grow 37% each year!
Here are the 4 job orders they currently have open:
Customer Service- Candidates must be fun, upbeat, professional appearance, 3-5 years of customer service experience, good personality. Pay is $18-$20 per hour. NO MORTGAGE CANDIDATES.
No mortgage candidates? This lends credence to complaints by former mortgage workers that they are being stigmatized and discriminated against.
Look for my article exploring this issue in Sunday’s Register, in the Marketplace section.
March 7th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
That sounds illegal, do you have any info if they can state that or are they discriminating against a person.
I hope that is illegal if not it should be, after all customer service is customer service, if a person has good skills it shouldnt matter that they worked as a customer service rep in a mortgage industry
March 7th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
My husband and I were told this by several AppleOne offices, as well as other temp agencies way back last Spring. One AppleOne office flat out told us that unless we wanted to take a substantial pay cut, they had nothing for us and berated me for 15 minutes about how “us folks” in the mortgage industry were spoiled no-nothings with no skills who needed to join the “real world”. This despite my BACHELOR”S DEGREE in Business Management. Very insulting.
My husband made it all the way to several interviews, only be berated by one fellow about how he didn’t trust anyone who used to work in the mortgage industry and tried to imply that he was some kind of crook because he used to be a loan officer.
We both finally found work in different industries, but it was a serious uphill battle.
March 7th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
That should have said “know-nothings”.
And “only to be berated”
I need to proofread my rants.
March 7th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Trouble is there are so many mortgage workers out of work and they’re applying for anything and everything they can find. It takes too long to wade through the pile of unqualified candidates. If your last gig was as a loan processor, you’re not qualified to be a software project manager.
March 7th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
But if your last gig as a customer service rep or a loan officer, you *should be* qualified to be a customer service rep in another industry. I appreciate that there are far too many underqualified people in the industry, but when you’ve just wrapped up a Bachelor’s degree program (Summa Cum Laude even) and have a decade of work experience, it’s insulting to have someone tell you that you should accept an $8 per hour receptionist postion because you have the word “escrow” on your resume.
March 7th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
Think about it from an employers POV, they want someone who wants a career not to someone waiting for the market to come back to jump ship.
March 7th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
There is no ship to go back to! The industry isn’t in a downturn. It’s dead. These companies are OUT OF BUSINESS.
Plus, I hate that statement because it’s what got me stuck in the industry for a decade. I TRIED to leave the industry 7 years ago because of the amount of corruption I saw in it and I got the same attitude then. “Why on earth would I want to leave such a booming industry?”, prospective employers wondered. Obviously, I would not be a loyal employee. It is a very, very frustrating attitude to have to deal with. Even if you wanted to leave the industry, people wouldn’t let you. As it was it took a Summa Cum Laude Bachelor’s Degree, a minor in English, and some serious sincere pleading to get myself a job in an industry I actually wanted to be in a decade ago. If I’d realized what a career death trap the mortgage industry was, I never ever would have joined it.
March 7th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
So what? Just lie about previous employment and income the same way you used to for your mortgage clients.
March 7th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
The mortgage market isn’t coming back for years and probably never to what it was… they’ll need a new career. We had declining rates for 18 years and 5 years of loosening mortgage guidelines the real estate industry absorbed mega tons what would have been unemployed workers anyway to do mortgage, title, escrow, construction and RE agents. Plus produced billions of in cash for home owners to go buy expensive plasma TV’s and SUV with 22″ rims. Which was probably a good thing for a while because the US doesn’t make anything anymore so where are all these people supposed to work anyway? I’m sure China loved the cash from the boom. I have a friend that manages a shipping dock in Long Beach, those container ships come in full and leave empty. Maybe the decimated dollar will put people to work and those ships will leave full again. We’ll see…
March 7th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
Spam Says, “So what? Just lie about previous employment and income the same way you used to for your mortgage clients.”
You didn’t have to, they had 100% financing up to $1,000,000 NO DOC. You didn’t even have to write in the employment, income or bank account and amounts you just left it blank.
March 7th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
As you sow, so shall you reap.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
Hi Julie Scott,
Can we talk off line from this forum about where you and your husband found employment? I am dealing with the same issues. And I too have a BA Degree, Management Experience, etc.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
makes sense to me. why would you hire people from an industry that lied and mislead so many home buyers? it’s a good litmus test that if someone was a broker they likely are not honest and lack basic business sense
March 7th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
Just a statement to those that call us crooks. I’m sure your, “Stated or No Doc” loan has you living luxuriously. You weren’t complaining when that FAT check was deposited into your account, were you? My previous employer preached that they were in it for the long haul, this of course after the 1st layoff. An $80 Billion dollar company that could have let go of the Executives to save the little people. Not all of us are corrupt. We adhere to Company guidelines and do as we are trained to do. A lot of us in the Mortgage Industry came from a different industry. Are those skills to be washed out?
March 8th, 2008 at 1:36 am
Big Serg,
Well said!
Edward Johnson and shiny,
You and your hateful kind need to just keep your ignorant pie-holes shut! MOST career brokers/mortgage loan officers I have known were college educated serious professionals who bent over backwards to help their clients get the RIGHT loan for them and their family…I myself have an MBA from Pepperdine and was in corporate accounting and finance for 13 years before I entered the mortgage field in 2001…you think a guy like me lacks “business sense”? Ha! Heck, I still get referrals from folks I got loans for back in 2001…you think they feel like they got screwed?
It is true, from 2002-2006 there were quite a few “Boiler Room” types but the guys I know who were in it BEFORE the boom are being penalized for the rats that jumped on ship to make a quick buck in the “twilight years”.
I would like to know what so many that throw darts at the entire industry on this board do for a living…bet I could have some fun with quite a few of the most hateful like Edward and shiny on this board!
March 8th, 2008 at 2:49 am
My company allows ex-mortgage types in if they have been through rehabilitation.
It’s not easy, though.
Ted Haggard tried and did not make it.
March 8th, 2008 at 4:41 am
I wonder if it is illegal to say “NO MORTGAGE INDUSTRY APPLICANTS” on a job posting?
I do understand why an employer wouldn’t want that type of person on the payroll though. Too much baggage and too many bad vibes for many of those folks from the mortgage industry.
Not only would it be distasteful for many customers to be served by someone from the mortgage industry, their fellow employees would likey feel uncomfortable around them at the water cooler or in the lunch room. An employer has a duty not just to the customers, but also the rest of the employees to provide a comfortable work environment without distraction or drama.
March 8th, 2008 at 7:21 am
As a business owner, I have interviewed several mortgage professionals, and have not been able to hire any of them. The ones that I have interviewed have had a sense of disconnect about the position. They have mentioned again and again that its not enough money, and that they will go back to the mortgage industry when things pick up. Interviewing them, along with other highly enthusiastic candidates that were not in the mortgage industry, i had to go with the enthusiastic candidates. Of course, I would never publish something like “no mortgage workers need apply”, but yes, there is a definate hesitation on my end to interview mortgage professionals.
March 8th, 2008 at 9:46 am
I always felt uncomfortable and found it distasteful to be around anyone with the name…Troy! I have fired the three Troy’s that have ever been in my employ….they upset the customers and made people uncomfortable around the water cooler in the lunch room. Gave three of their co-workers the hives just by having to say the name “Troy”. I mean everyone knows that all Troy’s are pompous, ignorant twits given to self-righteous innane musings and likely outfitted in argyle sweater vests, pastel yellow golf pants, and wire rimmed glasses with a perfect part on the side on their hair-sprayed heads. It’s a well-known fact that most Troy’s all got to their station in life due to Daddy’s or Mumsy’s connections since they themselves could barely spark a 9 v battery with their own brain wattage. I DO understand why an employer wouldn’t want THAT TYPE OF PERSON on the payroll! I think all those named “Troy” should lose their jobs and be tossed on to the street due to all of these FACTS about EVERYONE named “Troy”!
March 8th, 2008 at 9:56 am
Mamaguza,
One of two things going on here” Either you interviewed some of the most moronic people in the world (Who tells their prospective employer they are going BACK to their former industry as soon as they can?) or as I suspect….you are making it all up and aren’t a business owner at all! Just another blowhard on this board trying to paint with a broad brush about an entire industry they know nothing about. Telling someone that a position isn’t offering enough money is called negotiating….a business owner would KNOW that! Interviewing someone who tells you that they will leave you the minute things “pick up again” in their old industry means it’s time to stop the interview and tell them to “Have a nice day…and good luck!” since that is a bigger deal-breaker than the money issue and no need hiring and training someone who is waiting for the reason to leave you. I think you’re a transparent fraud.
March 8th, 2008 at 10:34 am
This is quite sad.
Our office tried to hire a few mortgage guys. The true fact is the position and pay could not support the exuberant lifestyle that they were accustomed to.
although you’ll find many of my posts to be ULTRA BEARISH, I tried to help and cheer up these guys when they came to work with us. They left after a week.
The true fact is,
When you become rich, its EASY to forget how poor you were.
When you become poor, its HARD to forget how rich you were.
March 8th, 2008 at 11:03 am
I used to work in the mortgage field. I was laid off 2 years ago. I had a marketing degree. Went back to school, and got an accounting degree. I had a professor tell me that my age and past work experience would make firms pass on me. I got hired on with an internation accounting firm. They are bringing me on as a Senior, because of my past experience. I am 38 years old. Keep your head up, work hard, and get retrained. Good luck everyone.
March 8th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Gosh some of you over educated brainiacs can be mean spirited. The truth is that the mortgage meltdown was a embarrassment in it’s right under our noses brashness. The bad people sat next to the good people and the good people let so many get screwed. Well life has consequences It rains on all of us. You were bad or oblivious and your industry is dishonest. Would you be eager to hire such a person?
March 8th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
The largest problem is with unverifiable job histories, people can make all kinds of claims and there is usually no way to substantiate them. The simple reason LO’s are not considered for say customer service is due to the sales background and training. Personally I would rather hire a person with no experience so I can train them the right way to do something without having to surmount years of contrary ideas.
On a further note the market is not dead, Pro’s have to do a lot more leg work now but a living can still be made. The difference is between those who create the work and folks just seeking a job with all the answers solved for them.
March 8th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
Closer,
You hit the nail on the head…the flashy “order takers” who never produced a lead for themselves in their “careers” are out of the business now…only the real pros remain…the ones who have satisfied clients who refer friends and family to them or realtor and Cinancial planner referral partners who trust in them and not just a flashy and deceptive series of ads and “informercials” like the dead and buried “Quick Loan Funding”s of the world to keep the paychecks coming! THOSE guys have the skill sets to leap right into the “Food preparation” business!
March 8th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
600 Starbucks employees to lose their jobs
Hey these guys are uneducated over paid order takers as well. Pushing the high priced addictive drinks on us. Let’s let them starve too.
March 8th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
While rude and unfair, it is not illegal to say you are unwilling to hire people with experience in a certain industry. Antidiscrimination laws protect members of “protected classes” and mortgage worker is a protected class.
March 8th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
BigSerg wrote: “Just a statement to those that call us crooks. I’m sure your, “Stated or No Doc” loan has you living luxuriously.”
Isn’t this a great example of why employers might be hesitant about hiring former mortgage industry workers?
As it stands, the idea of paying a premium to avoid documenting my income for a mortgage loan never made sense to me. Perhaps that’s because I didn’t lie about my income on either a mortgage application or a 1040.
For those who don’t sympathize with BigSerg’s statement…my take is that while prospective employers might find discriminating against former mortgage workers to be a great low-cost filter against…well, BigSerg’s statement…it’s still wrong, it likely hurts qualified people who weren’t part of the problem, and while I doubt it’s illegal I think it should be.
March 8th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
To: Larry P
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I unlike you do not have a degree. But, I tip my hat to those who do. They’ve proven that they have dedication and loyalty to providing themselves with focus and determination. To the Business Owner….Mamaguza, you obviously didn’t interview me. The mortgage industry has its’ peaks and valleys and all I have been looking for since my layoff in August 2007 is a company that will provide me with stability and opportunities for advancement. That of course does not mean working for $13 an hour but if that is where I need to start then so be it. I am a husband and a father of 2 beautiful boys that I can’t provide for becuase I have experienced at first hand the prejudice towards us mortgage individuals. To employers, it is like we are an incurable disease. Well we aren’t. We have skills and experiences from before we entered the mortgage industry and mine lies in Customer Service.
March 8th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
David,
You talk out of your back end…the mortgage industry as a whole was “dishonest”? Really? I got news for you bud, the subprime meltdown didn’t take place under everyone’s noses because not every mortgage bank/broker did subprime mortgages. In fact, the vast MAJORITY were prime loan shops…A-paper ONLY! Only the “Johnny-come-lately’s” that jumped in and chased where the money was did subprime usually. Beacuse with subprime, you don’t have to build relationships, just “churn ‘em and burn ‘em” as was the mantra of the subprime parasites. But YOU wouldn’t know that because well, you’re typical of most ignorant’s on this board!
Mean spirited? Did you read what you posted? You branded me and every honest loan guy/girl as “screwing” the public we by and large fought for and helped achieve their dreams of affordable home ownership. Tell me GENIUS, how many people in this country are in default due to ANY reason right now? Do you know? Less than 1% of all US housing. Of people with mortgages, less than 3% of all homes. You know what the percentage is of those with mortgages that have 30 or 15 year fixed mortgages that some Loan officer got them? About 75%! Not exotic mortgages, not subprime, not baloon loans….fixed, affordable rates and payments…what THEY wanted! You think they are upset with their loan officer? You are a bigger fool than I give you credit for if you do. Most people YOU know that are homeowners have long term FIXED rate mortgages….were THEY lied to? Did the loan officer’s that got them loans at 5.5% 30 year fixed leave the business prior to 2004 you think?
“Dishonest” is something for those who form and spout opinions on subjects and people for which they have NO clue! You are one of the clueless. You, as do most ignorant know-nothings, have a lot to say about things you have never understood or probably even come in contact with. How’s that for “mean spirited”?
March 8th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
To Tom:
My hats off to you that you are able to document your income. Not a large percentage can. Remember that the loan programs that were out there came from big LENDER’S within the mortgage industry. These loan programs were approved by Fannie or Freddie. My job was to adhere to company guidelines, policies and provide a service on the Lender’s side of things. It wasn’t my choice which loan product was chosen, my job was to ensure that the loan closed…..and I did that. Discrimination is well…Discrimination and it’s illegal. The only option I have now is to return to school and obtain a Degree in order to get ahead.
March 8th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
to all of you in the loan world…be you honest or not, its called karma and to all of you defending the loan people and stating 1% are in default. Do you read anything other than your own tea leaves. Quit acting like george bush and actually think about what your saying. I dont care about the nation..I care about my local OC economy where I live and cant sell my home. I bought for 250k, I did a refi at 300k when a low life aprassor and the low life loan guy said it was worth 400k, I passed on the 400k and kept it at 75LTV. Its now worth 250k and I cannot sell. Who would have thought that having a 75% LTV would be a bad thing. You all are going thru Karma and you deserve everything that happens to you.
March 9th, 2008 at 12:10 am
Tom,
Forgive me but I fail to understand what you are referring to when you say “Isn’t this a great example of why employers might be hesitant about hiring former mortgage industry workers?” with concerns to Big Serg’s statement. Or this sentance “For those who don’t sympathize with BigSerg’s statement…my take is that while prospective employers might find discriminating against former mortgage workers to be a great low-cost filter against…well, BigSerg’s statement”…what are you getting at, exactly? Big Serg is frustrated that he and others like him are getting frozen out by those who are blaming the many for the few’s sins of being sleezy and money-grubbing during the boom and his statement showed it is all. I fail to see what exactly in his statement needs to be “Filtered”. Please explain. Thanks.
Larry P.
March 9th, 2008 at 5:55 am
“Off with their heads”
Seriously, if you were a very good salesperson or people person, you’ll always find employment or find way to make big money.
If you are a terrible one, but you just were in the right industry at the right time, like the greatest housing ponzi scheme ever!, you will go back to earning the minimum wage.
Which one are you?
The truth is if you still unemployed and blaming discrimination, you probably were one those natural occurring boneheads (college degrees or not) that made lots of money because you were in a booming industry at the right time. Remember 20% of a sales force generates 80% of the sales in any given organization. All the rest I consider boneheads or space filler. So in the huge booming industry that you mortgage employees just got out of, by that statistical formula, there are lots of boneheads with the idea they will ever earn what they were earning looking for employment, and really, does any employer really need that type of “well, I used to make this much” attitude around the office day in and day out. I wouldn’t if I hired another inside sales assistant. I just need someone that is very good, very honest, and very happy in helping me generate that 80% of sales, and be well rewarded for it.
If you are one of those boneheads, I hope you saved aggressively in Fantasy Times!
Note: I say honest because clearly when median income was $60K in a area, and you only just seemed to see $150K annual earnings on the majority of the non-doc applications (just enough for the going insane price for a home in the Bubble years), and you didn’t want to do the probability math or didn’t care because you were raking in big bucks, then I consider that as not being a honest person. I would first lose a sale (and lost many in my career), if I thought my customer was not getting what he wanted and needed.
March 9th, 2008 at 6:25 am
ABOUT FREAKIN TIME………I AM SO DESPERATE FOR WORK, MAYBE THEY WILL HIRE AN HONEST GUY FIRST!
COMPANIES are just making sure that new employees will not have a sheriff at their door arresting them for mortgage fraud.
Plus it was OK to steal, falsify documents, shred papers, delete incriminating emails…so WHY CANT I DO IT ON THIS JOB ?
———————————-
Some companies are specifically stating that they don’t want any job applications from former mortgage workers.
March 9th, 2008 at 6:48 am
Too funny. An employer can discriminate against a class of worthless lowlife skill-less (people) involved in the real estate business to their heart’s content. Stop your whining, or maybe they’ll make you buy back some of those toxic mortgages you’ve all been pushing.
The reason they don’t want anyone involved in the mortgage business is that they’ve probably interview 300 of them in the past month and they were all totally useless applicants. They don’t want to keep wasting their time. Thus, their very logical policy.
To those who claim they weren’t part of the problem and that they were just following company policy: that sounds like Eichman’s defense. Take some responsibility for the fact that you were involved in a highly unethical business. You may not have personally done anything, but you saw it happening all around you and did NOTHING.
March 9th, 2008 at 7:58 am
Larry: assuming that everyone has what’s, really, come to be known as a “liar’s loan”, and that they somehow got rich off of, basically, taking loans too big for their actual income, sounds like a good illustration of the “fog a mirror-get a loan” idea that’s sunk the mortgage industry and is threatening to take the rest of the economy with it. If someone can’t document enough income to afford a mortgage then, when I bought my house years ago, the idea was they didn’t get a loan. If enough people didn’t get loans then house prices, at least, had to bear some relationship to the cost of renting.
I’m actually pretty confused that BigSerg brought up the topic of stated-income lending in the context of this post. If he was in customer service then, as he pointed out later, he didn’t decide to push such loans.
As for the “filter”, in the eyes of people who didn’t like what happened in the lending industry over the last few years…other people have already talked about the general idea. If someone can throw out a whole pile of resumes by saying “no mortgage workers” then they don’t have to spend time going through them, talking with people, and identifying qualified people among them. If they think the “mortgage workers” pile might have a higher percentage of resumes they don’t want than the “not mortgage workers” pile, then maybe they’ve saved themselves some effort. I think that’s wrong because it deprives qualified people with readily transferrable skills of a level playing field.
March 9th, 2008 at 8:57 am
There is nothing illegal about discriminating on the basis of your prior work history; in fact this is the core of ANY job interview. “Mortgage broker” is not a legally protected class, so by all means if an employer is never going to hire one, he is actually saving both his time and the time of the applicants for the position by advertising that preference up front.
As I see it, the real problem is the sense of entitlement among evacuees from that industry, well illustrated in the posts on this blog. Many in that industry were grossly overpaid for what they did, and it’s understandable that legitimate workers making a similar salary are going to be hesitant about hiring charlatans who not only expect the same salary, but who are responsible for having driven up the cost of houses so that no one earning that salary could afford to buy a house over the past few years!
Quite frankly, many people see the people bailing from the mortgage industry as the enemy, and not without good reason. Would you hire your enemy to work at your company?
March 9th, 2008 at 8:58 am
Unfortunately I agree. Once you have interviewed a few dozen people with a strange sense of entitlement or victimization it gets old. If another hummer pulls up I’m puke-ing. You can imagine it interfering with future productivity and the other employees. Employers are looking at the bigger picture. In the late nineties it was a surplus of web designers. There were just too many of them. I think we have the same situation now. I know someone who had 20 years in the mortgage industry and was laid off. He was hired again right away. When you have a good reputation and those willing to back it you will get another job.
March 9th, 2008 at 9:42 am
To all those who have commented on some of the things that I’ve written. I wasn’t making the big dollars. Some of you proclaim that we all do. I had a base, not the greatest. I had bonuses monthly for the number of units and volume closed which averaged out to be what someone would be paid if they were making $13.00 per hour. By the way, I was a damn good Account Manager and when something didn’t feel right about a loan, I made it known to Management. However, I didn’t make the final decision to move forward, those decisions came from Management. Those of you that criticize, God Bless. Those of you that are understanding, my heart says Thank you and God Bless.
March 9th, 2008 at 10:55 am
WOW what a post.
Ok, I’m a mortgage guy. Been doing it since 1997 and I’m not getting out of the industry. I’m going to stick it out, my friends who are serious about this job are sticking it out also. Fortunatly, I didn’t blow up my lifestyle. I own a modest little house, drive modest nice used vehicles and will find a way through the bad times. I’m still doing business, just not as much.
All the mortgage “pros” out looking for work right now are just a bunch of quitters. I don’t care what excuse you have, if you were committed to your profession 100% you would find a job in the same position and make it through the rough times. Instead, you give up and try to find employment outside your industry and wonder why you are black listed. I’m sure there are 100 and 1 excuses why it is different for you and why you can’t work in the mortgage/escrow/title blah blah blah. It isn’t any different, you just are not 100% committed. It was fun and easy while it lasted and now you are the victim.
I love my job, it is the only job I have ever had as an adult and there isn’t a recession or depression around that could force me to quit doing what I love. For the rest of you, piss off. You all ruined this industry for the lifers like me and I’m glad to see you go.
March 9th, 2008 at 11:05 am
To Brian:
I am in no way a quitter. In fact, if you were intelligent enough to know, several wholesale lenders have shut their doors and those that may still be around have left California and remained open in the State of origin. My previous employer is still operating…..in ARIZONA. How should I commute…..by HELICOPTER! I devoted 16 years to the lending industry and there aren’t any lenders hiring, not here nor in other states. You are fortunate enough to be on the retail side of things. How many loans have you closed this month? With your arrogant statement….I’d say “0″!
March 9th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Do not hire any mortage workers. They will cause more damages to your company with unethical business pratices and no skills set in their blood. Let’s government hire them.
March 9th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Ironic isn’t it! The top dogs (hedge fund managers, Sub prime corporate executives, Mozillo) maid millions, have millions, don’t need to work; don’t grovel for jobs. I am 59 yrs. old, usually made less than $100,000 per year (25 yrs. in the biz) can’t transition (B.S. Biology), unemployable except in lending which pays nothing. Insurance companies or MLM that’s about it friends!! Guilt by association and also a lot of jealousy out there from those that need to see everyone else around them with the same crummy job they have with no hope of breaking out. Maybe I will buy a franchise, that way, no one can judge me or call my shots for me. Follow the lead of immigrants who know they are unhireable start their own businesses!
March 9th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
This is long:
To Blackbox,
You are right, good salespeople are good salespeople whether what they are selling is mortgages, computer products, pharmaceuticals or whatever…and the old 80/20 rule applied in the lending world just as it does in every industry…but there were as many NON salespeople in the mortgage business as there were salespeople and many of them were in an administrative or customer service capacity….why are they being blamed for the sins of the few? That is the problem I have with all of this.
To Gary and Carlos and jbuniii and LAL, and on and on…,
Do you spit venom at ALL police officers when a few run a drug ring in the LAPD? Or do you say they all “deserve to die” because of the UNTOLD cases of police brutality and shootings over the years? Or do you hate ALL lawyers even those fighting for human rights and consumer liability cases because THOUSANDS of other lawyers are unscrupulous ambulance-chasers or work for Big Tobacco or some other nefarious industry? Or are all doctors incompetant crooks because a few times each year you hear of insurance fraud scams or some doctor left a scalpel inside the chest cavity of a patient? You think these comparisons don’t apply to mortgage workers? I do. I see you all throwing words around like “worthless low-life”, “unethical”, “self-entitlement”, “charlatans”, etc. Such bitterness! Does the Police officer in Anaheim get blamed for the cop in Riverside who shot a sleeping woman in a car in the head because she flinched? Does the doctor in Mission Viejo swim in the same pond as the one in East LA convicted of running illegal clinics and bilking millions out of insurance companies? No,of course not! Why the difference of opinion? In my view it is the overwhelming financial ignorance in this country that is a big factor. Most of you dont understand the industry or interest rates or the MANY loan companies and what they offer and think we are ALL alike…as if I and nearly everyone I knew in the business was in some way affiliated with say….the New Century’s or Encore’s or Ameriquest’s! Personally I knew only a few people who worked at some point at those companies during the bubble (and most of those were Processors or in loss mitigation) so why is a guy like me or similarly others lumped in to that mix…because you are just ignorant about anything mortgage related, that is why! Period. End of story.
And I’ve had about enough of this: The Housing Bubble was CAUSED by the lenders! Ha! You blame the lenders for the housing cost run-up yet if you bought or re-fied and pulled ANY cash-out between 2004-2007, it was YOU that caused it and NOT the lenders. You heard me…it was YOU! Quick: what came first, the chicken or the egg? What came first: the housing boom or the housing BUBBLE??? The boom started in 1996 for those that were paying attention…how come more people bought in OC and Riverside in 2004-2006 than from 1998-2003? You jumped on board ship too late my friends, that is why! What was it? Peer pressure? Didn’t want to get “left behind”? Wanted to “get rich quick” like you were reading so often on the pages of this very newspaper? How is that mine or everyone in my industry’s fault? Rates and prices were LOWER in 2002-2004 than they were from 2005-2007…why’d you wait until then to buy or re-fi? The lenders did NOT CAUSE the bubble! The OVERWHELMING demand from the consumer for purchases of new homes at low rates and ever-lower payments LED TO the lending industry helping in facilitating the bubble but they DID NOT CAUSE IT!
In my opinion, the two most dangerous parts of the lending industry’s involvement in the bubble formation was the boom of the subprime industry (hailed by the media while it was going on…and by homeowners who’s equity went up due to it as well) and their decision to allow high LTV, Stated income subprime loans…THAT decision is what is causing this ripple effect…those subprime folks STAYED subprime and couldn’t re-fi WHEN THEY HAD THE CHANCE because rates had gone WAY UP! The second was that HUD and Fannie/Freddie chose NOT to raise lending levels since 2003 even though the ALRGEST burst in prices was 2004-2007! This left a gap in lending for which the Subprime, Jumbo, and Alt-A markets went to fill…and they did! Why raise lending levels NOW when prices have DROPPED everywhere by 10-20%? Too little too late! Typical of government though to react AFTER a disaster instead of preventing one to begin with. I have commented and explained in detail about this in several threads on this blog about mortgages and rates and how “Stated income” loans were NOT the problem per se…Stated income SUBPRIME loans were a big part but NOT Prime Stated loans, imo. If you are interested in educating yourselves, feel free to look for those posts…if not, stay happy in your ignorance and bitterness, I really don’t care at this point!
In my business I always tried to make my clients realize how the decision to get the RIGHT loan for their financial plans was an absolute necessity for having any kind of good financial future. Mortgage Planning is as essential as financial planning as both help lead to a final financial goal! I can’t tell you how many times someone turned down my higher payment FIXED rate loan offer for a 1% variable Option ARM…is that MY fault too? You sound awfully bitter so tell me Gary, what kind of loan did YOU get when you re-fied and pulled cash out of your home? Option ARM? Subprime ARM? What? And what year did you get it? If you got a 30-year fixed at a decent rate, why are you trying to sell? People on this board never tell the whole story when they are bitching about some “low life” loan officer as you called him, here’s your chance!
I’m willing to bet (and I’ve thrown this out there before on this blog with no response) that EVERY person posting bitterness on this board is in either: a subprime loan, Option ARM, OR has never “Owned” anything in their lives except a computer to type furiously away on about what they DON’T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT! If you have a fixed rate loan that you can afford, what are you complaining about? Heck, if you have a Prime ARM, what are you complaining about since your rate is in the 4’s or 5’s…or will be soon enough (and quite possibly in the 3’s if your index is the 1-year CMT)? You can’t afford that, then your lifestyle is the problem NOT your mortgage. Geez, how many times have I seen someone with $1,000-1,500 in car payments and another $1,000-2,000 in minimum credit card payments complain about their 5.5% 30-year fixed payment being “Too High” and them wanting an interest only or minimum payment Option ARM? Too many to recount here!
For most people, their home is the largest LIABILITY they will ever have in their striving middle-class lives. If you don’t understand interest, amortizing, or the movements of interest indexes and what they could mean to you then you have gone in to this liability practically blind! That you went with the wrong loan product is WHO’s fault exactly? The Loan officer who got it for you or YOURS because you didn’t evaluate and analyze what was available to you? Or understand the loanat all? Be honest with yourselves and not just bitter. I think it’s time some of you need to look in the mirror instead of pointing fingers at those of us who TRIED to do right by the BORROWING public! I would NEVER deny that there were unscrupulous sharks swimming in the lending waters the last few years but it’s tough to get the WRONG loan armed with the RIGHT intelligence and information! If you got the wrong loan for you , then it was on you to get it right! There were and ARE as Brian stated, plenty of us “good guys” and real professionals out here…you just have to look and evaluate for yourselves. As you SHOULD have done during the boom!
March 9th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
I’ve been unemployed going on a year now. I was a Senior Accountant in the Real Estate industry, though not with any company that wrote or even touched a mortgage, sub-prime or otherwise. Yet because I have ‘Real Estate” on my resume there are a number of companies that do not want to interview me. To claim that this is NOT discrimination is bull. If I as an employer said that I didn’t want to talk to any Blacks, Mexicans, Jews, Women, anyone in a wheelchair, homosexuals or Muslims the hue and cry of racism, discrimination would be heard from all corners. Yet, it’s “OK” to discriminate if you’re from a particular industry? Don’t be surprised when the lawyers get